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Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1374<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
OT: Dogma<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1373<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Dogma<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)<BR>
Mass Destruction<BR>
riot control<BR>
Re: Dogma<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:54:21 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Alan Bradley" <BR>
> 3.  Gimmick devices like the anti-electronics one that I seem to have<BR>
lost<BR>
> the reference to above only work when they are a suprise.  A bit of thin<BR>
> plastic and some masking tape would adequately seal most electronic<BR>
> equipment.<BR>
<BR>
Ah.  What I lost was that the anti-electronics device was an EMP grenade. <BR>
I was thinking it was something like the gadget that was used against<BR>
Yugoslavia, where a seal, like above, would be sufficient to protect your<BR>
gear.<BR>
<BR>
Primitive EMP hardening might be possible, if awkward.  It would probably<BR>
be sufficient to reduce the effect of an EMP grenade, which could, after<BR>
all, not have too extreme an area of effect if it was to be used in a city.<BR>
 So, something more than a few meters away from such a grenade could be<BR>
safe, with fairly simple shielding.  Would the demonstrators have the<BR>
technicians capable of creating such shielding?  Obviously it depends, but<BR>
it's very likely.  They probably couldn't do it on the spot, but if this<BR>
device is do be used more than once, countermeasures are possible and<BR>
likely.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:58:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
From: Terry Carlino <carlino@home.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<history lesson concerning the atom bomb and the Cold War snipped><BR>
<BR>
Well, that's great. Last I noticed, within the Imperium there are no feuding<BR>
superpowers. There can be no Cold War style situation in the Third<BR>
Imperium... well, there can be, but at that point you begin to get further<BR>
and further away from the canon view of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
>Obtrav: As long as the other major interstellar powers can use near C rocks<BR>
>or mass drivers for orbital bombardment this method of warfare will not be<BR>
>used.<BR>
<BR>
Yet, strangely enough "energy" ortillery will be alright, even though the<BR>
effects can be exactly the same. There are plenty of strange rules of<BR>
warfare in the real world, so I'm not raising my eyebrows too much. So, what<BR>
you're actually saying is that these various interstellar civilizations,<BR>
each with *vastly* different views on... well, *everything* are going to all<BR>
decide to play by the same rules?<BR>
<BR>
I do find that a little bit difficult to believe.<BR>
<BR>
>In side the 3I it won't be used because destroying a high pop world<BR>
>would result in a general rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
"Destroying a high pop world"... Geez, would people *please* stop putting<BR>
words into my mouth when they reply to my posts? I'm not talking about<BR>
destroying high pop worlds. I'm talking about dropping big rocks, not<BR>
busting planets in half.<BR>
<BR>
Still, there's no reason to believe that such a scenario would result in a<BR>
general rebellion anymore than dropping a contingent of Imperial marines on<BR>
to the surface, backed up by ortillery would.<BR>
<BR>
>The local Reserve and System Navy<BR>
>forces would never support it, even if the Navy Admiralty did. Quite<BR>
>possibly even nobles in other sectors might not support it (because of<BR>
>pressure from their vassals), and support of the citizenry in general.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yet they will support dropping Imperial troops onto the surface of the world<BR>
to engage in combat with guerilla forces, where the distinction between<BR>
combatants and non-combatants will most likely be blurred, and the<BR>
distinction between civilian and war production will most certainly be<BR>
blurred?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:06:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Dogma<BR>
<BR>
Go see this movie.  It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about<BR>
religion and God as seperate subjects.  Alanis Morissette plays God and<BR>
pulls it off beautifully.<BR>
<BR>
OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:07:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 08:06 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm impressed.  This shows I have a LOT to learn about mounting realistic<BR>
>offensives.  :)  thanks for the excellant response, I'll be using your post<BR>
>as liner notes when I set-up things like that in future games.<BR>
<BR>
<shameless plug>Better yet, buy the book when it comes out!</shameless plug><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:25:19 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1373<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >I think you need to look into the actual "mechanics" involved in rock<BR>
> >dropping. *Nobody* "haul[s] big rocks into orbit". It takes an unreal<BR>
> >amount of power, even by Traveller standards, to shift the orbit of a<BR>
> >"big rock" so that it'll hit a planet *months* later.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Moving rocks would be economical, but not militarily viable.<BR>
<BR>
option 1: Move the mine to the miners. In order to reduce shipping delay of raw<BR>
materials to refineries, rich asteroids can be put into a low thrust intercept<BR>
to the location of said refineries. While they could take months or years, well<BR>
timed boosts could arrange an asteroid every other month.<BR>
<BR>
option 2: Cheap transport. In a Jerry Pournelle book (Leonard will know which<BR>
one, I cant remember of hand), the miners hollowed out a rich nickel/iron<BR>
asteroid, filled it up with small amounts of VERY rich and rare alloys, as wll<BR>
as hold and silver, and blasted it to earth with an orion drive.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:37:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
From: DaveShayne <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm sorry if I misconstrued your argument. I thought you were refering<BR>
>to the Centauri treatment of the Narn.<BR>
<BR>
No real problem. It's alright.<BR>
<BR>
>And can't support their own people who begin to think maybe being a part of<BR>
>the<BR>
>Imperium, "arna sa bad afta all." The peasants revolt and prety soon the<BR>
>same<BR>
>shmos who wanted the imperium off their backs are begging for a marine<BR>
>detachment for protection against their own people.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Really? So a world can't support itself without Imperial help. That's<BR>
interesting, 'cause we're not doing that bad here on Terra right now. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Still, there are some worlds which require technological assistance to keep<BR>
their population alive. Of course, the Imperium wouldn't need to drop big<BR>
rocks on them to win them over.<BR>
<BR>
>I supose it's posible if everybody on the planet is mortally opposed to<BR>
>imperial rule this might have to be done but I don't see any planet with a<BR>
>pop<BR>
>greater than 2 where this could posibly be the case.<BR>
<BR>
Well, the large number of nationalist movements, self-determination<BR>
movements, and so on that exist and have existed in the real world seem to<BR>
be placed in opposition to your reasoning.<BR>
<BR>
>who's gonna notice." In all other situations enough people will be found<BR>
who<BR>
>are willing to accept Imperial rule to keep things going on a more or less<BR>
>reasonably profitable level.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"In all other situations..." watch those generalizations, sir! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, though, this is an awfully strange view of the way human beings<BR>
have been, and seem to be in the real world. Granted, this is descriptive<BR>
and not prescriptive (the problem with "human nature" is that it's<BR>
neccesarily descriptive) but even so, what happens when you're confronted<BR>
with a charismatic, nationalistic dictator, or ideology, or both?<BR>
<BR>
>>1.) If you want to control a city / country / planet in a traditional<BR>
>sense,<BR>
>>somebody's got to be there. The Imperium doesn't *want* to control cities<BR>
/<BR>
>>countries / planets in the traditional sense. They simply want them to pay<BR>
>>taxes.<BR>
><BR>
>In which case they're going to choose the least damaging way of convincing<BR>
>them to accept imperial rule that they can.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Least damaging to whom? The planet or the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
If it's the former, dropping rocks is effectively the same as dropping<BR>
ground troops. You're still going to lose civilians, and it's more than<BR>
likely that you're going to decimate industrial centers. If it's the latter,<BR>
dropping rocks is a hell of alot cheaper and less time consuming than<BR>
dropping marines in battle dress.<BR>
<BR>
>Or try bribing the local leaders. If a planets power structure is left<BR>
>intact The<BR>
>local leaders may well decide that the Imperium is, "okaybyme."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bribes only go so far. That's been tried at various points, and that<BR>
frequently fails as well. How easy would it be to bribe a Hitler, or a<BR>
Castro, exactly, or any other leader who manages to convince people, for<BR>
whatever reason, to do things that seem amazingly non-rational in<BR>
retrospect?<BR>
<BR>
>>Neither does a determined populace. So, we're back at square one.<BR>
><BR>
>I supose. But just how determined is the populace? If the Impies come<BR>
>in with a batron and a few regiments of marines, bribes in the right<BR>
places,<BR>
>and some cosmetic reforms (say renaming the taxes negative income<BR>
>enhancements or some such) would the peasants still revolt?<BR>
>In most cases I doubt it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity, how did we end up on the Marxist "peasant revolt"<BR>
line? It doesn't have to be "peasants" or "proles" who are doing the bulk of<BR>
the revolting at all. In fact, in cases like the American of French<BR>
Revolutions the peasants weren't even the real driving force behind the<BR>
rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
>Yes I was being inelequent. Some other reasons countries go to war<BR>
>are: "Glorious Leaders" huge ego needs a stroke, religious disputes (These<BR>
>wars<BR>
>are among the dirtiest wars), to avoid being anexed by another country.<BR>
>(Yes it actually does take two countries to fight a war)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Actually, religious disputes, historically, have been among the least<BR>
"dirty" wars, depending on how you look at it. This may simply be an<BR>
accident of history, since the same force that allowed mankind to make<BR>
really impressive weapons also happened to marginalize those religious<BR>
institutions that would be able to make war to a great degree.<BR>
<BR>
However, if you were to add up the death toll of only two of the ideological<BR>
and nationalist wars of the twentieth century (World War I and World War II)<BR>
you're gonna find that the dirtiest wars weren't fought over religion at<BR>
all.<BR>
<BR>
>And no doubt many other reasons/justifications. Wars still boil down to a<BR>
>violent dispute over who gets to call the shots.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, but you've already stated that your previous statement was open<BR>
to misinterpretation. There's no reason to belabor the point.<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
>>It doesn't have to be genocide. Let me state again that total destruction<BR>
>>does not have to follow from rock dropping.<BR>
><BR>
>Depends on how big the rock is.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Still, it doesn't have to follow that the use of a brutal terror weapon<BR>
means that you have to turn the surface of a planet into slag and start over<BR>
again with a new crew of colonists.<BR>
<BR>
>>This would be different from the situation in what way after a land war in<BR>
>>what way precisely?<BR>
><BR>
>In general in a land war you only shoot at things that are in your imediate<BR>
>way and/or shooting back. As opposed to the rock that's going to get<BR>
>everybody it lands on whether their fighting back or not. Killing people<BR>
>who aren't otherwise involved usually results in fence sitters joining the<BR>
>foe more often than convincing your enemy to give up.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Really? In a land war, it can be amazingly difficult for combatants to tell<BR>
who's a civilian and who's not. Of course, the blurring of distinctions<BR>
between civilian and military targets that invariably happens in modern<BR>
warfare makes this even more problematic.<BR>
<BR>
>>Ah, okay. So now you're saying the mere threat of rock dropping will be<BR>
>>enough to bring a world around. The only problem is that from time to time<BR>
>a<BR>
>>world's going to say, "Hey! You're not *really* gonna whack us with<BR>
rocks!"<BR>
>><BR>
>>Then what happens exactly... start a land war? Or follow through on the<BR>
use<BR>
>>of cheap and brutal "terror weapons"?<BR>
><BR>
>Um yea I guess that last paragraph of mine does tend to support your thesis<BR>
>more than mine. But if you nuke say a convenient uninhabited moon that<BR>
>hapens to be nearby.... Well maybe convinced fanatics would doubt your<BR>
>willingness but nobody can doubt your capability.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Oh come on, who the hell's going to doubt the Imperium's capacity to drop<BR>
big rocks on their population centers at will? Anyone in the Imperium who<BR>
has the most rudimentary education is going to understand that it's a<BR>
painfully simple process.<BR>
<BR>
Still, your "moon" scenario is just delaying the inevitable. Okay, the<BR>
Imperium does that once, and the populace folds. The Imperium does it again,<BR>
somewhere else, and the populace folds. What happens if the Imperium whacks<BR>
a moon a third time and the population says, "Nuts!"?<BR>
<BR>
>>Where do things such as the firebombing of Dresden, the atomic bombing of<BR>
>>Hiroshima and (tongue planted firmly in cheek) the God smiting of Sodom<BR>
and<BR>
>>Gommorah fit into those conceptions?<BR>
><BR>
>Dresden was more or less irellevent to the outcome of the war. In<BR>
<BR>
Was it now? I know, people can tell me how there were no real industrial<BR>
centers there, blah blah blah...<BR>
<BR>
Still, do you happen to have access to some information the world isn't<BR>
privvy to? Perhaps morale levels among soldiers and civilians in Germany<BR>
after the news got out? Can you say with certainty the bombing of a civilian<BR>
target - which Jens noted was where civilians were going to avoid being<BR>
incinerated - had no effect whatsoever on the war?<BR>
<BR>
>Japan was already beaten in every sense except the actuall occupation by<BR>
the<BR>
>time<BR>
>the bombs were dropped. The japanese knew this and were attempting to<BR>
>negotiate surender terms at the time. The bomb merely pointed out that we<BR>
>were<BR>
>willing to kill all of them in order to get unconditional surrender.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes, and this message was sent in a big, atomic fireball... This further<BR>
supports my point, actually. After all, what happened to the fence sitters<BR>
who would (under your model) rise up and strike back at their foes as a<BR>
result of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?<BR>
<BR>
>In both cases large occupying armies were required to control the conquered<BR>
>teritories and we wound up spending a large sum of money rebuilding their<BR>
>destroyed infrastructure. If both of the previous were not true we would<BR>
>probably<BR>
>have had another world war sometime in the sixties.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Again, you go on to support my point, since the infrastructure of both<BR>
countries was decimated by more traditional forms of warfare. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:41:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 07:03 PM 11/21/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced, weak-kneed Army Rapid<BR>
>> Intercourser, By God!  An' smile when you call me 'Impy'"<BR>
>> <BR>
>> - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd Marine Regiment (Hell on the<BR>
>> Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at the 404 Club.<BR>
><BR>
>"Only if the Marine landed head-first.  The hollow-point effect, don't<BR>
>you know."<BR>
><BR>
>- Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co, 1199th Jump Infantry<BR>
>Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of Armsman/1c Schulters'<BR>
>remarks.<BR>
<BR>
"Them's fighting words!  An' if I could figure out where the floor is, I'd<BR>
mop it with yer head!"<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:48:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dogma<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Go see this movie.  It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about<BR>
>religion and God as seperate subjects.<BR>
<BR>
I agree. It is a fantastic movie, but I didn't come away with quite the same<BR>
moral myself.<BR>
<BR>
><blank> plays <blank> and pulls it off beautifully.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
C'mon, Doug, for those who know who the first <blank> is and can recognize<BR>
her, it's such a pleasant surprise!<BR>
<BR>
>OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I've had folks who are suspiciously like Jay and Silent Bob as<BR>
players... come to think of it, nearly all of my players are like the<BR>
characters from Kevin Smith films.<BR>
<BR>
It's an eastern seaboard thing, I think. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:01:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
><shameless plug>Better yet, buy the book when it comes out!></shameless<BR>
plug><BR>
<BR>
Book?  BOOK?!  :)<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 02:58:03 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> The Vargr developed jump drive, and Lair has a higher TL that the<BR>
> Zhondani.<BR>
> As I recall from AM3, the Vargr found the Zhos, not the other way<BR>
> around.<BR>
<BR>
Oh. I had no idea. Being a relative newbie (2yrs), I have only got T4<BR>
and G:T material. Sad...<BR>
<BR>
And no, I don't have the money to buy the reprints...<BR>
<BR>
> Quite the opposite, I feel the Vargr mind set would encourage<BR>
> scientific development.  Why?  Charisma.  Vargr are intelligent<BR>
> creatures, and the Vargr who developed the Theory of Relativity would<BR>
> be the Alpha of Vargr physicists.<BR>
<BR>
Why does this way of thinking remind of the scientists of another race,<BR>
one I know far better from real life?<BR>
<BR>
> It's tempting to see the Vargr as a wild howling pack of dogs.  <BR>
<BR>
Certainly. That's the way I've run them.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Indeed, that the impression the give much of the time.  But to ignore<BR>
> that they inhabit an area of space equal if not larger than the<BR>
> Imperium and have inhabited that area since before the First Imperium<BR>
> came along does them a disservice.<BR>
<BR>
From the G:T module, I got the impression that Vargr space was much<BR>
smaller. I hate not having access to canon material like this piece of<BR>
information!<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, thanks a lot for enlightening me. I will start a Traveller<BR>
campaign with a new group during spring or so. I will change my view of<BR>
the Vargr for that campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Is there perhaps a web source of basic information about the different<BR>
races, perhaps with a general timeline thrown in? Is there good (better<BR>
than in T4) examples of such material in GURPS: Traveller (the main<BR>
book, which I don't have)?<BR>
<BR>
<snip of thoughts on Charisma><BR>
<BR>
Interesting thoughts. I've played them more like a wolf pack, with a<BR>
strong leader having to show off his strength to the others.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:13:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:33:24<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
> At the same time, Marine units begin dropping to seize high value targets<BR>
>such as the planet's starport.  Other raids are launched to both distract<BR>
>and demoralize the defenders.  At this point in the operation, the overall<BR>
>commander will make the final decision on where the main force will land.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    If you're dropping troops to the surface to grab what is, in all<BR>
likelihood,<BR>
an already well-defended target, such as a starport or other "high value<BR>
target", why wouldn't you make that, or one of those, your main beachhead?<BR>
If you're talking "hit and get" raids, yeah, but I got the impression that<BR>
you<BR>
were talking seize and _hold_ the starport.  Troops already on the ground<BR>
would make suppression of local air-defense (or their analogue) possible<BR>
as well as being able to designate/clear landing zones as well as giving<BR>
the main force, hopefully, a relatively fire-free zone to muster in.<BR>
    I could be wrong, but it read to me as if you were saying that the<BR>
"initial raids" and "pathfinder landing" were two different and completely<BR>
seperate stages.  It would seem to me to be better to combine them.<BR>
If nothing else, this forces the defender to decide what is a feint, what is<BR>
a raid, and what is the legitimate main force landing (re: Hitler, Normandy,<BR>
and Pas-de-Calais).<BR>
                                                            Lyle<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:16:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)<BR>
<BR>
> Which brings up a question for me; assuming the<BR>
> forces have control of the<BR>
> 'high ground', whats the best way of dropping your<BR>
> troops in oder to capture<BR>
> the planet?  Together in armored shuttles (I think<BR>
> this is a bad idea<BR>
> myself) or like in Starship Troopers, where they<BR>
> drop individually<BR>
> 'halo-style'?<BR>
><BR>
J-Man, each has their advantages and disadvantages.<BR>
Shuttles make targets, big and obvious, but<BR>
individuals are smaller targets, and hopefully one<BR>
blast doesn't take out a whole company. However the<BR>
old problem with paradrops is that the unit gets<BR>
broken up. If you've trained with Sgt Slaughter,<BR>
Corporal Jim-Bob and your best friend Cyril every day<BR>
for the past two years in the "Glorious Gonzo<BR>
Company", and suddenly down on the ground you're with<BR>
a bunch of bozos you don't know, in the "Confused<BR>
Klutz Company", well, you're just not going to fight<BR>
as well. In military strategy when the enmey mixes you<BR>
all up in a mass of confusion, nobody knowing who's in<BR>
charge, they call that "disruption," and it's a chief<BR>
aim of the enemy, who will happily drive armour into<BR>
your flanks to finish you off. When you do it to<BR>
yourself, it's not called "disruption", it's called "a<BR>
successful paradrop."<BR>
<BR>
I'd go for the armoured cars, myself. Unless unit<BR>
cohesion ain't important to you, which I suppose it<BR>
isn't if you have trained beserker fanatics who don't<BR>
need back-up or organisation.... "I only need to know<BR>
one thing... where the bugs are... blood blood blood!"<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:20:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
> Obtrav: As long as the other major interstellar<BR>
> powers can use near C rocks<BR>
> or mass drivers for orbital bombardment this method<BR>
> of warfare will not be<BR>
> used. In side the 3I it won't be used because<BR>
> destroying a high pop world<BR>
> would result in a general rebellion. The local<BR>
> Reserve and System Navy<BR>
> forces would never support it, even if the Navy<BR>
> Admiralty did. Quite<BR>
> possibly even nobles in other sectors might not<BR>
> support it (because of<BR>
> pressure from their vassals), and support of the<BR>
> citizenry in general.<BR>
<BR>
Who remembers Moff Tarken in Star Wars? He was never<BR>
ordered to go and waste Alderaan.... who here thinks<BR>
that if the Death Star had survived the Emperor would<BR>
have cashiered and executed Tarken? I think he just<BR>
got carried away with his big new toy. Alderaan's<BR>
annual taxes might've paid for a whole new Death Star.<BR>
<BR>
What are the possibilities for a Death Star type<BR>
weapon in Traveller? Maybe a humungous Meson Gun?<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:23:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: riot control<BR>
<BR>
>>IMHO, the best riot control weapon is something with<BR>
no medical side<BR>
effects,<BR>
able to be targeted effectively, and has minimal<BR>
secondary effects.<BR>
Watar canons<BR>
seem to fit the bill. Water casues no alergic<BR>
reactions, the delivery<BR>
will at<BR>
most cause abrasions and blunt trauma (on hitting the<BR>
ground  or<BR>
obsticals) and<BR>
can be aimed to avoid children and elderly (who have a<BR>
higher chance of<BR>
sustainig more serious injury with the secondary<BR>
effects.>><BR>
<BR>
And, you can put something smelly in the water, plus<BR>
some fluro pink paint. That way, the rioters are<BR>
embarassed by their smell, and you can spot them<BR>
later! (If you like the post-riot arrest thing)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:30:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dogma<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Dogma<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Go see this movie.  It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about<BR>
>religion and God as seperate subjects.  Alanis Morissette plays God and<BR>
>pulls it off beautifully.<BR>
><BR>
>OBTrav: Jay and Silent Bob as NPCs (or, God forbid, PCs)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Silent Bob would make a good PC.  You have to think that he carries Jay,<BR>
& if it was not for Silent Bob, Jay would have been dead a long time ago.<BR>
*weg*<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:34:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
 Huummmm,<BR>
> > >if you could cool him down, I wonder just how big<BR>
> a crater he would make?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced,<BR>
> weak-kneed Army Rapid<BR>
> > Intercourser, By God!  An' smile when you call me<BR>
> 'Impy'"<BR>
> > <BR>
> > - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd<BR>
> Marine Regiment (Hell on the<BR>
> > Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at<BR>
> the 404 Club.<BR>
> <BR>
> "Only if the Marine landed head-first.  The<BR>
> hollow-point effect, don't<BR>
> you know."<BR>
> <BR>
> - Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co,<BR>
> 1199th Jump Infantry<BR>
> Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of<BR>
> Armsman/1c Schulters'<BR>
> remarks.<BR>
<BR>
"Well, it's good to know that the Navy always will<BR>
land us at the right place."<BR>
- - Private Naive Bastard, Charlie Company, 5th<BR>
Battalion , AIF, Gallipoli, April 1915<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1374<BR>
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